Speaker Sexton on the Public Safety Special Session

Yesterday, we spoke with current Speaker of the House Cameron Sexton, who answered a few questions that have been looming over Monday’s special session since the governor announced his intention to call one back in May.

Below is an abbreviated version of our conversation, which encompasses everything from red flag laws and juvenile crime to the manifesto and how the Republican supermajority will fare in the face of what is sure to be another national media firestorm. Below that is the full transcript of the conversation.

RED FLAG LAWS  

“The only thing that's in there that could be proposed is [a] red flag, and we're not passing it,” Sexton said, echoing many of his Republican colleagues. “We have enough people who said they're not voting for it. It’s not going to make it out of subcommittee, if it gets in subcommittee. But I think as far as our state—I think it's important for us to show and if that bill gets in the committee, it gets voted down to show that in Tennessee, we're not passing a red flag Law.” 

JUVENILE CRIME

Speaking about the bipartisan effort to address the number of crimes committed by youths in Shelby County, Sexton brings up his intention to close existing loopholes, especially when it comes to the juvenile transfer statute. “They can still charge them as a juvenile,”  the Speaker explained. “And as a juvenile, they only serve until age 19…so for premeditated murder, a juvenile may only get two to three years.” 

MANIFESTO 

Regarding the release of the manifesto, the speaker referred to the matter as delicate and explained how an unintended consequence of lawsuits filed to release the information has tied it up in court, preventing even a redacted version from being released. “...obviously there's certain things that we'd like to know,” he stated. He then rattled off a series of  unanswered questions that could have helped legislators make decisions, before giving an example of one instance in which they were able to take decisive action using the information they did have. 

“Why did she choose some places [over] others?” he said. “ We believe it's because [of] armed guards, so that's why we put SROs in every school this last year—or, we proposed funding and passed it.” 

“…There's several things that we can do that would have limited her ability to carry that out,” he continued.  “And red flag’s not one of them.”

GUN RESTRICTION

“All that is off the table,” Sexton said of gun-specific legislation. “Before, the Democrats were all talking about, ‘Well it’s really not about taking away guns, it's about getting the person help.’ When they realized that the guns [weren't] in the call, all of a sudden, now they're like, ‘I can't file my gun bill, this is about guns….’ ” 

Instead, the Speaker explained,  the focus should be on preventive measures and mental health. 

It’s always about guns with them. It's not about the person. And when someone commits a crime, the person commits the crime….They may use a gun, they may use a knife, they may use a hatchet. But that person is the one who is wielding that weapon to cause harm on other people….Taking away the weapon doesn't necessarily fix anything, they will move to another weapon. But you haven't solved the person. And that's what we're focusing on.

PROTESTS AND THE NATIONAL MEDIA FIRESTORM

“Look, we've been here before and we're going to do our job,” the Speaker said when we asked whether he and his colleagues are prepared for what’s to come next week. He closed by stating that the majority leadership plans to do what Tennessee has always done: find solutions without infringing upon civil liberties. “That's why Tennessee is, I think, one of the—if not the top conservative state in the country,” he stated. “That's what we've done in budget, that's what we've done on other issues, and that's why we're being successful and why we're going to continue being successful.”

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

PAMPHLETEER.  Speaker Sexton, we appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us before special session commences next week.

SPEAKER SEXTON. Yes. 

P. I know you and your colleagues have been working tirelessly over the summer since the end of General Assembly. So, from your perspective, what do you hope the body accomplishes next week? And what are your specific goals?

SEXTON. Well, we're going to file some bills today. These will be non-captioned bills. But I mean–I think if you look at it from the standpoint… I think–if someone decides to file a bill on red flags or enhanced orders of protection, I think it's important to put it in committee and let it have a vote. I think it will die. It won't pass. That's the way that would go, and I think it's important to show that that's not the direction the General Assembly wants to go.

I think if you're looking at the direction that we will at least talk about—[and] hopefully get to—is looking at mental health, and looking at the Emergency Involuntary Commitment clause…. It’s used more for…suicidal people. It’s not really used for people who would be mass shooters, because they're not a threat now. Much different. And so I think you'll see us try to move that to imminent threat, which means, you know, potentially a mass shooter who's wanting to carry something out in a day or week ahead. I think [that] gives us some latitude. I think you’ll see how we define a general mass threat gives us the ability for law enforcement–for people who make those threats to be picked up as a crime, and at least have mental health assessments be looked into. And when you [combine] that with Emergency Involuntary Commitment, that kind of gives you the whole parameter there.

 Also, when we look at the Covenant shooting, you see that we have a Duty to Warn statute in place. The issue is, it's a very gray statute, and it doesn't tell anyone where they're supposed to report the warning. It doesn’t say they have to [speak] to law enforcement, it doesn’t say they have to talk to [a] mental health [provider]. So we think we need to clean that up, make it less gray, more black and white. All three of those things could have limited the Covenant shooter. And so, those are three important things that I think we need to do.

P. It sounds like you guys are cleaning up a few things that already exist to make them better.

SEXTON. Right. I mean, look. What happens a lot of times when there's failures in current law, people look to pass new laws instead of looking to see if you can fix the old laws, clean them up, or delete them and put something new in place. So then… you start having competing laws. And that becomes problematic because law enforcement doesn't know which one they can use. So, we think that there [were] multiple breakdowns in the way the laws were written, and in the statutes that didn't give law enforcement the resources and the tools, that didn't give the mental health experts the ability to commit someone involuntarily who's an imminent threat to themselves, or [to] report to law enforcement that they’re [an] imminent threat to themselves or to society…. We think there were breakdowns that can be fixed that would have limited the Covenant shooter. 

I will say, you know, you're never going to completely prevent or stop someone who is willing to harm themselves or others. And so, what you can do is put things in place where you try to catch it earlier [and] have the resources if you do [to] try to limit the ability for them to carry that out. But it is very hard to stop or prevent someone from ever wanting to cause harm.

P.  Right. Now, speaking of the national attention that this is obviously going to get, the narrative has heavily revolved around gun control and has been perpetuated since the Covenant tragedy. Many of our conservative readers are wary of reactionary legislation. We've also heard various Republican politicians assure them that won't be the case. I heard you say it lightly, but will the Republican supermajority hold the line? Is that the feeling you're getting?

SEXTON. So there's nothing in the call that would allow a member to file a bill that bans firearms, ban any certain firearms, ban magazine size, or ban anything else, or restrict any other types of guns. That is not in the call. And so, those bills will not be able to make it into a special session. All that is off the table. 

The only thing that's in there that could be proposed is [a] red flag, and we're not passing it. We have enough people who said they're not voting for it. It’s not going to make it out of subcommittee if it gets in subcommittee. But I think as far as our state—I think it's important for us to show that in Tennessee, we're not passing a red flag law. 

And, you know, I know there's some people who say, “Well, you should adjourn and go home.” I don't believe in that. I think that is not doing our duty, that's not answering the call of the governor…. I think beneficially, you know, defeating the Red Flag Law and not passing it sends a message, as well as finding solutions that would have real impact, that would solve the situation without limiting someone's constitutional liberty, freedom, and Second Amendment rights.

P.  When we're talking about the broader stroke of this public safety special session, we know that Memphis is crime ridden. We've seen other cases, like the Eliza Fletcher kidnapping and murder that left Tennesseans unsettled. Do you feel like there's some legislation and bipartisan support in taking more proactive approaches to addressing criminal behavior? And are there any bills that you specifically want to [discuss] addressing the issues that we're seeing in Memphis?

SEXTON. Now, Memphis has—a lot of this is juvenile crime. And so you have gang members or adults who are recruiting juveniles to do crimes. So there's a portion of the call… [that] talks about coercing a juvenile into doing a crime for you, something like that. So there will be legislation around that. I think you’ll also see us focusing on a transfer statute—transferring juveniles from juvenile court to adult court—and I think you'll also see us looking at blended sentencing for juveniles: which all have an impact. I think you're going to see legislation as well from [a] member that says, if you're a juvenile and you committed certain crimes, you're not able to purchase a gun until you’re age 24— which is what other states have done. 

And so, I think there’s a whole host of things that we can do. One of the things that I will tell you is, in Tennessee, the DA still has complete discretion, and the juvenile judges have complete discretion, if a 16-year-old pre-meditates and kills somebody and is charged with murder,  they can still charge them as a juvenile. And as a juvenile, they only serve until age 19. So,  for premeditated murder, a juvenile may only get two to three years. If they were in an adult court, they're going to get a lot longer. And so one of the things we're looking at in the transfer statute is saying, “What crimes should be mandatory transferred to adult court?” I think murder is one of them. I've had some soft-on-crime groups in here who disagree with me, and they want to argue about mitigating factors and other things. But I think if you murdered somebody, and you're charged with first-degree murder, and potentially second-degree murder, you should be charged as an adult. You shouldn’t be able to get a soft sentence because you're 16 for trying to kill somebody and  get out when you're 19.

P. So, switching gears again, I want to ask about the manifesto. We've seen Leader Lamberth come out with a bill to protect the families of victims, specifically protecting the privacy of their loved one’s autopsies. Do you feel it's been a disservice to Tennesseans that— despite the fact this tragedy has sparked an entire national narrative and a special session introducing legislation, do you feel it's a disservice that they don't have a full picture of the circumstances which led up to this horrific event?

SEXTON. Well, I mean, I think that's a delicate question. I think, unfortunately, a lot of different groups have sued. And so that has stopped law enforcement from even trying to put out a redacted journal, because it's tied up in court. So that's, you know, an unintended consequence. I think that if I was looking at the manifesto… obviously there's certain things that we'd like to know. I think we do know— we don't need all the details of how it was planned and what was planned, because people would use her plan like they used Columbine. So, there is an element of not releasing everything, because copycats are going to try to mirror it. So that's a real concern. But I think there are things that if we had better knowledge of it, then I think it would help. You know, the motive: why did she choose some places [over] others? We believe it's because [of] armed guards, so that's why we put SROs in every school this last year—or,  we proposed funding and passed it. You know, when she was under doctor's care, how long was she under doctor's care? When did she buy the guns? Was it when she was under doctor's care? Was it before doctor’s care? What was the timeline [from] those purchases to the event? What did she say to her therapist? Were there any threats that she made to her therapist or anyone else that didn’t get caught? Was she on any medication? Toxicology reports? I think there's information that can be gleaned that would protect the families, and not release all the information that's not needed to make policy. And so, hopefully, at some point, we'll get there. But you know, it's tied up in court and some of these things, I don't think we can wait 12 months to fix. And so, based on what we know on a limited basis, I think, you know, there's several things that we can do that would have limited her ability to carry that out. And red flag’s not one of them.

P. You mentioned some information that even you all haven't had access to, things like whether Hale was receiving hormone replacement therapy. If there was autopsy evidence of something like that with this shooter, do you think knowing that might have affected the approach of what you plan to do this special session?

SEXTON. I mean, it could have. When I'm looking at  what's being proposed… it's a lot about mental health. It’s about increasing access, it's about providers. You know, our provider pay is is low and so we have a lot of people who aren't providing the services because the reimbursements aren’t high enough. We have to take a look at that….I mean, there could be something there. I think there's a lot of information that has been leaked out through various media mechanisms. At this point, I'm sure there's still things in there that we don't know. Will we ever know it? I'm not sure. I think we're heading in the right direction to work on this issue.  I think a lot of it has to do with her mental health, and what was being said in those meetings, and you know, did the physician fail to warn law enforcement of her intent.

P. It sounds like a lot of the solutions you all are bringing forward are more proactive, more supportive of these apparatuses that support things like helping people receive mental health care. Of course, no matter what the intentions that you all are putting forward for this session, the national narrative– just like before, the national narrative was very contentious. Do you think that you and your colleagues are fully prepared for the divisiveness, the protests, and the media coverage that will occur during this special session?

SEXTON. Well, we've had protests up here for about the last three years. We've had violent, we've had peaceful…so we're prepared to come in and work:  we have the safety protocols, and we're doing things that will make sure we can [work]. But also, you know, you can't allow people to think that they can bully you and intimidate you into not doing what you think you need to do. I mean, I think in the end, when you look at the call–-before, the Democrats were all talking about, “Well it’s really not about taking away guns, it's about getting the person help.” And then when they realized that the guns [weren't] in the call, now they're like, “I can't file my gun bill, this is about guns, we should be restricting guns, we should be banning guns, we should be doing this with guns.”  

It’s always about guns with them. It's not about the person. And when someone commits a crime, the person commits the crime. They may use a different weapon: they  may use a gun, they may use a knife, they may use a hatchet. But that person is the one who is wielding that weapon to cause harm on other people. And you have to fix the person. Taking away the weapon doesn't necessarily fix anything, they will move to another weapon. But you haven't solved the person. And that's what we're focusing on.

P. Do you have any message for the Tennesseans who voted you into your position and are depending on your leadership as you step into this contentious session?

SEXTON. Look, we've been here before, and we're going to do our job. And we're going to do what we've always done in Tennessee, which is come up with solutions that work, but don’t  limit someone's freedom and liberty and constitutional rights. So that's what we're going to do. That's what we're going to focus on. That's what we've been doing. That's why Tennessee is, I think, one of if not the top conservative state in the country. That's what we've done in budget, that's what we've done on other issues, and that's why we're being successful and why we're going to continue being successful.